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Thank you John for your honesty and insight into elder selection at HBC. Unless it was a danger to someone. The bear was later seen using the gun to defend itself against local mice and rabbits., PASTOR has to Keep Up With The (Paige) Pattersons, you know. The elders in one church have no say over those in another. Its not all of it, but its certainly a substantive portion. Almost that exact thing happened at the neocalvinist church I attended. That is part of our fallen world. When I now go to a church, I want to speak with elders and listen to what they are saying and how they are behaving and whether they are willing to reveal how much the pastor is making. And you dare to point your finger at TWW participants, and courageous Dee? Since then, the output of Christ-adoring songs from various worship team members has continued to accelerate. Director Dallas Jenkins on the Goshen, Utah, set of "The Chosen" Season 2. Maybe you missed the point of her post. People were dying for this faith from the very beginning, which suggests that it was not merely wishful thinking about some made up traditions. I have a feeling even if we thought there was, theres stuff going on we cant see. Because MacDonald earned it. Ken F (aka Tweed): Vincent is a coward: came to an old thread less likely to be read and didnt stick around to answer for his comment. The only reason there is a belief Jesus ministry was three years is because Johns gospel notes three Passovers. But this just doesnt seem to fit. But you could change the future by using your failure for good. Heard somewhere; Hell never be a great man.. Backfired twice over. Of course, the big jump you and those who make such claims make is from a shepherd/overseer/elder who is to look after, protect and provide for the flock to a paid, authoritarian ruler. This could be real or fabricated, such as recordings of people, say, playing the Name Game, or threats of kicking their kids out, planting child porn on their devices or otherwise destroying their reputations. so you dont. Thanks so much for passing on much needed information. And those statements dont legitimize any of this garbage that goes on. I adhere to the never-say-never adage but cant even remotely imagine EVER being involved with a church again. Lord knows we need a fundamental change in the selection of leaders for the Body of Christ and an accountability system in place to keep the charlatans at bay. Through prayer and provision, a permanent location for our North Shore Campuswas found in Highland Park, in September of 2015. in talking with my octogenarian missionary-kid dad, i hear words like the heathen (it makes me sick, yet i love him with all my heart and soul). We were in a panic, didnt have enough hands to scramble around and cover all their eyes, which, up to this point, had been quite innocent. It appears he has been a poser, a bully and a thug for a very long time. Neither Dean Butters nor I wanted our letters published. . Also, we must note who it is that the elders have authority over. Gods blessings to you. Wonderful, on point comment. After a while, he and his band of yes-men elders drifted farther from the Main Thing, allowing the main thing to be about them and schemed in the shadows to preserve their ministry. Driscoll was stopped Hybels was stopped MacDonald was stopped. There have been many people demanding our statements be made public, and now that they are, are rejoicing in that, all while commenting from anonymous online handles. I hope that brings you some hope and encouragement today. You chose to serve in a church with incredibly stupid , unbiblical and mean people in charge. Does anyone have examples of big churches that are emblems of integrity? Im holding out hope that my faith in God will survive, but truth be told, some days that seems uncertain as well (, Ex HBC staff, thank you for sharing your pain. I understand He loves us to infinity as my 6 year old likes to say, but it sure wouldve been nice if pastor had given parents of small children some kind of warning. Thats my personal experience after over a decade in the fold, and several years since interacting with many former Reformed folk; no offense intended. You drive over there, and sure enough theres the house thats in the picture from the magazine article. Clement may be writing as if those offices are an established fact, but for all we know, they could have been set up a few years previously as an organizational attempt and they were used to it. And after a brief pause in this mission, Harvest is returning to planting more and better churches by raising up more and better Christian leaders across Chicagoland, America, and around the world. And what is love? . And the same verses in a different Bible, the ESV: 5 And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. Will they stay quiet on "awkward" victim stories? And to link them together as a Body of Christ, each one uniquely gifted to be a part of the whole something the institutional church just doesnt appear to get. dont do anything just because you want to (that would be selfish) but wait until you hear from God. i mean, why does it matter, any more than what elastigirl thinks, or what Max thinks, or what any of the other cast characters thinks? Yes, we must preserve the right to arm bears. Let the truth flow. We now see, via ECFA, that these massive personal perks were evidently excluded from their comp review, meaning James has likely been under reporting his income to the IRS by hundreds of thousands a year. Please never leave this forum. Makes me sad to think its so. Turning a blind eye was a full failure. As their hands touched and their lips met, the ragin river pulled them down. May you feel Gods presence and peace in the days ahead. Again, like you, I am aware anew of Gods presence in many different places and people, and recently most poignantly in marginalized communities and people. He makes vague remarks about how the blogs have certain things mistaken, or that their motivations are suspect but doesnt actually bother to correct them on anything specific. From the earliest days of the institutional church, abuse and murder has been wreaked upon those who dared to believe that they could serve God outside of The Church. Max:in their heart of hearts they dont really give a big hoot about reading the precious words in red, let alone the rest of Scripture.I dont see the point in saying that you are a Christ-follower if you dont get to know Him through reading His Word. For the one or two people who read ALL the way through these comments to my own. Trust in Jesus and his completed work is what makes one a child of God. The bit about only a unanimous vote of their executive council being able to remove the lead pastor theres a recipe for success when grievous wolves are not unexpected. This is something that all Christians in a church community should take to heart. From all the people I know in those churches, I think thats exactly what happens! Leila: he will be partnering with a music minister from another local church and they are starting a church service in a bar on Sunday evenings. I wonder whether it might not be better to simply abandon the entire property-owning paradigm and return to the original practice of meeting in public places (for large groups) and in homes (for small groups). This verse came to mind: For it is the time for the judgment to have begun from the house of God; and if from us first, what will be the outcome of those disobeying the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17) The business-first model that seems so pervasive and knocks down just about any scrutiny until there is videotaped evidence would seem to fit somewhere in that spectrum, no? You sound like an attorney who just sent me a letter stating that I posted false statements by a victim. Consider the following Scriptures: Now the apostles and elders [PRESBUTEROS] came together to consider this matter. (Acts 15:6), Let the elders [PRESBUTEROS] who rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially those who labour in the word and doctrine. (1 Timothy 5:17), For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders [PRESBUTEROS] in every city as I commanded you (Titus 1:5), Is anyone among you sick?

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